VOTING THIRD PARTY

Fandango’s Provocative Question #229

This final week (is this the final week?) of this great challenge is about as timely as a question could be. And, here it is:

Personally? I would like to see a parliamentary system. It’s more flexible and more responsive to “the moment.” Elections are not scheduled, but called when needed. I also don’t think this can happen here. We are wedded to our rather odd concept of a constitutional republic.

Although there were three parties for a while early on in this country’s history, it gradually lost power. These days, third party candidates are spoilers: sometimes strong enough to pull power away from a potentially winning candidate giving the opposition a chance to win. We’ve seen that happen in several modern presidential elections, but have never seen “a third party” with the power to put a candidate into the presidency. We do see third parties win local races, though. Third-party winners in mayoral and congressional races and probably others of which I’m unaware are not rare.

The one I remember best was 1992 and 1996 when Ross Perot ran as an independent candidate for President of the United States. Perot was a Texas industrialist who had never served as a public official but had experience as the head of several successful corporations and had been involved in public affairs for three decades. He won 8% of the vote, enough to top the scales in a few states. The Green Party did the same in 2000, gaining 3% nationally and possibly tipping a couple of states to George Bush.

The most successful third party candidate ran in 1872 as a Liberal Republican. That was Horace Greeley and he won almost 44% of the national vote. Not enough to get into office, but close enough to make everyone nervous.

I’ve never voted third party because I never thought (in my lifetime) they had any chance of winning. I have never seen a big wave of interest in these candidates or at least, not enough to make a real difference. The worst part of these third party candidates is that they get just enough votes to swing elections, as often as not to the people they most want to defeat. We absolutely need a serious third party — or at least another viable party — preferably to replace the so-called Republican Party with a party that has some actual interest in working toward a better America. And maybe a little less corrupt?

I’m a dedicated voter. I even voted when I was overseas, going to the American consulate to get my absentee ballot. Sometimes, it seems so futile. I think overall Biden has done a good job, but no one has addressed climate change which I still see as a primary issue of human survival. Today, as hurricane Idalia is lashing a 250-mile swath off southeastern Florida and the sky is beginning to clear, the danger isn’t over. Officials are warning a massive “king tide” could make the already dangerous flooding even more deadly. Many areas of Florida are likely to be under water soon.

Even Floridians are worried. This is the kind of storm they do not get, coming from a different area and hitting with a rare fury. Fires and flooding. “Hundred year” storms arrive every week. And yet we keep waiting because … what? We think this will all go away on its own and all we have to do is hunker down until it’s over?

If there was a viable third party, I’d check it out. If I thought there was a party that actually cared about what I care about, I’d be thrilled.

I don’t see it. Not even a hint of it. Biden should retire — he deserves it. He’s worked hard for many long years. I can’t imagine how he is managing to accomplish what he has accomplished much less the remainder which still needs to be done. I couldn’t do it and I’m younger than he is. I think he has done a great job, but we need to do more. I don’t even see a candidate, much less a party, ready, willing or able to get it done.

As we march into our next election cycle, I don’t see a candidate remotely likely to do what I think needs doing — or even close. Our electoral system is so unwieldy and inflexible, I’m not sure we can pull together. It is a system almost designed to pit group against group.

Have we ever really worked together since the original revolution? That may have been both our beginning and our national peak performance.



Categories: #FPQ, #Photography, Anecdote, Election, political parties, Politics, Provocative Questions, Voting

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21 replies

  1. Almost everyone you meet in Prescott is a disgruntled Californian, and most are from the coast or Southern CA. The US has so many problems now I doubt that either party can see past its vengeance and hatred of the other party to work on solving them. I agree that Biden needs to retire. It’s time. On the Republican side, I like Nickey Haley mostly because of her common sense stance on the abortion issue. “We shouldn’t demonize women.”

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    • I have friends in Prescott now (but I don’t live there), and we met living in California (the bay area or silicon valley). I left California, too. My hippie tendencies (while I was not a hippie) were more accommodated in a midwestern state while I raised my children.

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      • I loved visiting California, but I never wanted to live there. It was a little bit too hippy-dippy for me.

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        • It really didn’t seem that way at all by the time I moved there. One exception, maybe, was that you could hear harp music at the mall (live in a Nordstrom and on tape in a little shop with potpourri). I considered taking lessons from the local recorded musician, and I wish I had. Even with an over-hour trip out to a park, there would be a set path to walk. A couple of exceptional memories, though, are going to see the monarch butterflies (I don’t remember the name of the place) with a friend one day and going with a friend group to do some serious spelunking. Additionally, it was in that state that I first had sushi (both at a picnic handmade by a Japanese coworker of my husband and at a restaurant with other [white] worker foodie friends who, as I recall, had a young son who wanted us to know he was in Mensa). I’m glad I went to the art museum in San Fran (with a drawing class I was in at a university). I’m sure I could think of more. I like Sonoma. I took my Bradley classes out there, but that’s available in all states.

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      • Are you living in the Midwest now. I came from Indiana. We left when I was 15 and moved to Portland, Or.

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        • I lived in several midwestern states with my children, and I still live in the Midwest. I’ve never lived in Indiana, but I’ve visited. It has some beautiful scenery.

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          • Southern Indiana is scenic. Going back I found a lot more to love than I did as I was growing up. My brother and I went to South Bend ten years ago for his birthday. We had a great time there, and went to see friends in Indianapolis.

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    • Yeah. I just start laughing hysterically when she says that China will be dumped into the “dustbin of history, just like Russia.”

      Really? China was around. Powerful. Making porcelain when we were still wearing animal skins and couldn’t weave cloth. In may opinion, somehow China will outlast us and everyone else. Also, we are going to deprive CHINA of goods? You mean after we handed them our entire manufacturing base? All they have to do is stop selling computers and cell phones here and Americans will go completely wacko.

      If we hadn’t handed China our economy in the 1990s — the BIGGEST mistake Clinton made, though I’m pretty sure it didn’t matter who was in office, it was going to happen anyway (no matter how idiotic it was) — we could deprive them of something. Unfortunately, they are in a much better position to deprive us than we are of them. Yes, we can try to starve them but why do I think Americans won’t buy the “starve them out” idea especially because our farming conglomerates count on China to buy up all those soybeans we grow.

      She has no understanding of history. I appreciate her sense of womanhood and even applaud it, but China isn’t going to the ash heap of history. WE might get there, though. We are babies on the world stage. China has been a major power for more a thousand years and has survived every possible kind of government — even (gasp) democracy. We’ve been around for maybe 300 years including the pre-revolution years. And we handed them our economy. We lose, they win.

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      • Well that’s true. I guess I missed that. China has been around longer than anyone else, but not Communist China. We have no idea what it is like living under real rulership of a king or really strong authority. I hope we wait until we are gone until the US has to experience that kind of submission and subjugation.

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      • I agree with your evaluation on China. Another big mistake was removing the Glass-Steagall protection (but a lot of people/groups were pushing for that).

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        • All the rich people who wanted to get richer. I think we ALL knew it was not going to improve our lives. But most laws have nothing to do with us except to make us poorer and more complicated. We don’t vote on laws or have any say on how they are written or a way to suggest this is not good for we “regular” humans. And if we did, would they care? Nah.

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  2. So maybe we wouldn’t have had to put up with Clinton, had it not been for Perot. And… Gore won in 2000 but had the win stolen from him via Roger Stone’s trickster methods (including the Brooks Brothers Riot) and the compliant Supreme Court (unforgivable). Meanwhile, yes, we should get rid of the Electoral College.

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    • I really liked Clinton, personally and politically. He made some terrible mistakes but then which president has NOT made terrible mistakes? Name one, I dare you.

      We need another political system. This one isn’t working.

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      • I was going to say the best I can imagine is it being possible that if George Bush had been re-elected in 1992 and we’d had Clinton in after the 1996 election through 2004 — and most of the next January (to the end of the term) of 2005 — we maybe wouldn’t have gone to Iraq at all in the 21st century or the aughts at least, and maybe Democrat leadership would’ve done something better about Afghanistan. Of course, there’s no way to know if Clinton could’ve won a first term later than he did. And then, looking around, I found this (yet still wonder if Clinton, unlike Bush, wouldn’t have been asleep at the wheel in 2001 and, wishfully, wouldn’t have concocted a connection from Saudi terror to a very different country):

        … US military involvement during the Clinton years took place in a number of places, including Somalia, Rwanda, Iran [I‘m guessing a mistake/Sic.], and Bosnia.

        ~

        4. Iraq

        In Clinton’s 1998 State of the Union Address, he warned Congress of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein’s possible pursuit of nuclear weapons. Clinton told congress, “Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation’s wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them… I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, ‘You cannot defy the will of the world’, and when I say to him, ‘You have used weapons of mass destruction before; we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again.'”

        To weaken Saddam Hussein’s grip of power, Clinton signed H.R. 4655 into law on October 31, 1998, which instituted a policy of “regime change” against Iraq. He then ordered the launch of a four-day bombing campaign named Operation Desert Fox, lasting from December 16 to 19, 1998. At the end of this operation Clinton announced that “So long as Saddam remains in power, he will remain a threat to his people, his region, and the world.”

        The problems in Iraq would later be addressed by Clinton’s successor, George W. Bush.

        The “problems” like the absence of weapons of mass destruction?

        I recommend NOT clicking on the link as backing
        out of it wasn’t allowed. Weird.
        >https://potus-geeks.livejournal.com/460362.html?<

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  3. I was told, years ago, that voting third party in a basically two-party system amounts to bupkis. It pulls votes away from either candidate, and I have yet to hear of a third party candidate ever winning anything. If you don’t like either candidate, vote for the one you dislike the least, or don’t vote.

    As to Florida, I am continually amazed that people stay there. Year after year, it seems, they have to rebuild, or re-locate, or flee the state and return to find their expen$ive new hou$e under two feet of water. People actually choose to live there. And they cannot understand how we, as New Englanders, can tolerate ‘all that snow” and “all that terrible cold weather”. Ah, but it goes away without doing too much damage. And we don’t have alligators.

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